Venting...
Nov. 22nd, 2003 04:36 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
chrystallineBleh. Very *long* conversation tonight (this morning...well, it started at about 10 pm, and didn't end until 2 am;) and rather draining, as it involved major spiritual issues. Why don't people understand that trust isn't trust after it's proven? It's only trust when you have no proof; then it becomes fact. Four solid hours, broken up only by loss of cellphone signal on a couple of occasions.
Now I'm heading into the realm of the spiritual, and if that bothers you, don't click.
Religion (according to Webster's Dictionary):
an organized system of beliefs, rites, and celebrations centered on a supernatural being power
OR
belief pursued with devotion
Now, the first is the more common usage, but the latter is more relevant in my current argument. Jean posted a comment about school systems banning Christian symbols but allowing other religions' symbols to remain, and Rose made an excellent point: Christmas is a *Christian* holiday (hence the word holy-day: holiday) and the other religions *have no reason to celebrate it in the first place* You want to decorate trees and give presents? Fine, but don't call it Christmas. Christmas is ours. Celebrate whatever winter festival sparked the tree decorating, call it whatever it used to be, call it Tree Day, call it whatever. Just quit telling Christians they can't celebrate Christmas.
The groups banning Christianity argue that allowing Christian symbology is an unconstitutional establishment of religion. There are several problems with that argument. First, by celebrating the holiday at all, they are acknowledging Christianity as foundational in our culture. Second, by singling out Christianity, they show themselves to be anti-Christian, rather than neutral as they claim. Third, the US Constitution forbids the *Federal* government from making any law *prohibiting* free exercise of religion, which means the states are well within their rights to establish any religion they choose, unless their state constitution expressly contradicts that freedom. On the other hand, if they want to play it the Federal way, prohibiting Christians from celebrating Christmas in their own way is a violation of the very amendment they are claiming.
What is more, by its very nature, religion is a component of the human psyche. If religion is belief pursued with devotion, then every human being has a religion. He may call it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, or any other of a host of names, and people would say, "yes, that's a religion" according to the primary definition. However, he may say, "I don't have a religion." This is not true. He does not participate in an organized religion; he may not believe a deity exists, but he does have a system of beliefs. If it were not so, he would not be a thinking being. His belief system is his religion, and there are many "unofficial" religions: humanism, in which mankind is the ultimate authority and deity is simply not mentioned; atheism, in which man is the ultimate authority and is hostile to the very idea of deity (one must wonder why those who do not believe a deity exists must so vehemently insist that others agree to ignore said deity...you never see people vehemently denying the existence of Santa Claus or Jack Frost or the Easter Bunny...Easter being another Christian holiday that has been hijacked); environmentalism, in which nature is of supreme importance, justifying all manner of violence against human citizens minding their own business and going about their daily lives; and pantheism, in which every religion is fine as long as it isn't Christianity, because Christianity insists that all the others are wrong (never mind the fact that Islam and Judaism make the same claims)
Your religion is the framework by which you comprehend the world around you. I believe in God, so I see evidence of His power in the world around me. A humanist believes in himself, and explains the world in terms of human activity. He does not believe that spirits exist, so evidence of supernatural activity is explained away as a hoax, a trick of the light, an illness. God Himself could stand before a dedicated humanist, and the humanist would insist He was a mental patient or a temporary hallucination. This is why demands of "proof" bother me so. If you have already decided not to believe, no one will convince you, and if you have decided to believe, the proof is simply sweet reassurance. There is a reason it is called faith. Or trust.
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
My argument with my friend tonight centered on his insistence that he will not believe the Bible until it is proven true in all accounts by man's physical senses. The spiritual realm is not detectable by the physical senses, though, and the Bible itself declares: "Without faith, it is impossible to please God," and "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God," and "The things of God are foolishness to them which believe not." It will not make sense until you decide to believe. We call ourselves witnesses because we have experienced the things of God, and He has told us to tell the world. "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Human beings are creatures of emotion, not logic. When confronted with a decision to make ("which job should I take?" "which person should I go out with?" "which plumber should I call?" "which house should I choose?") we go to our friends and ask their opinion. The vast majority of people will trust the opinion of a friend over even the testimony of an expert: this is why all the proof in the world will avail nothing. People will believe what they want to believe. I did a brief stint with a financial investment and insurance company, and they made the point that people generally will not listen to an agent in deciding what investments to make: the average investor turns to his/her brother/sister/parent/spouse/co-worker for advice. The result is that the investor often ignores the professional, because s/he trusts his/her family and friends more. Thus, "official proof" of scripture will be unconvincing unless you are already predisposed to believe it. Most people will not let facts get in the way of their opinion.
We are called to be witnesses, because the only way to persuade people to believe is to be a good example and explain the Gospel. A Christian who never mentions God to you is failing in his/her calling, and demonstrating that s/he is more afraid of your ill-temper than of seeing you cast into everlasting flame. Truly, if you believed a friend/colleague/other acquaintance was on his/her way to a horrible fate, would you not warn him/her to turn around? Bridge out? Forest fire? Flash flood? Would you let any of these things take your friend when you had the chance to warn of the danger ahead of time? If you care about people at all, you would have to speak out. This is why we must tell others of Christ; eternity is too long to spend in lightless, unquenchable flame; within eyeshot of heaven, but unable to escape. It is often love which compels a Christian to tell others of Christ; we do not look forward to watching the angels hurl our friends and loved ones bodily from God's presence. There will be tears in heaven at the judgment.
A visiting preacher made a very good point a couple of Sundays ago: In this country, a person is innocent until proven guilty. Thus, instead of saying, "prove it true," people should offer their evidence for why they think it is false.
What is also interesting to me is the lengths to which people will go make a stink about Christianity and the Bible. I mean, really; people go looking for something to be offended about and they don't even know that the Bible says, or what certain groups believe. I don't go looking for Muslims or Pagans or Hindu so I can make their lives miserable, but I have had people go out of their way to try to antagonize me. A former co-worker used to challenge me almost every night with, "Do you celebrate this holiday? What about that one?" No, I don't celebrate Halloween; it's a Pagan holiday, and they're welcome to it, as far as I'm concerned. I like dressing up in costumes, but there's no reason for me to do it on that night. I haven't celebrated Halloween since 4th grade. Yes, I know that Christmas was moved to December to coincide with a Pagan celebration, and yes, I know the decorating trees originated with them. However, trees also have relevance in Christianity, as Christ was crucified on one, and since we don't really know the date of His birth, December is as good a month as any. Besides, the Catholic Church named the holiday (hence the name Christ Mass) and we Anabaptists (Amish, Mennonites, and Baptists) generally aren't on the best of terms with them anyway. The Protestants generally don't like us much, either. He seemed determined to try to get me riled, and it got old quickly. I never snapped at him, a fact I attribute to the Holy Spirit's influence in my life, because I do have quite a temper.
Yes, I believe that the other religions are wrong. Do I then go out hunting? No. In general, I avoid even *arguing* with those groups. I know that I cannot change their minds, and they won't change mine, so it's pointless to start. I don't go out and demand that Congress outlaw Wicca, but there are people out there insisting that Congress disband private organizations if they dare to uphold Christian values (Boyscouts, anyone?) and prevent Christians from speaking in public places. How long before the lions are in the stadiums again? I see groups here on LJ and in other places condemning "fundies" (as they call fundamentalist Christians) and expressing a desire to imprison and kill us. When have I ever expressed such a reciprocal desire? When have I ever told someone of an opposing religion that I wanted to kill him/her? Please let me know, because I do not remember ever doing such a thing. Yet it is popular to make such threats against us.
Oh, and as long as I'm on the subject, those who don't believe in God might just as well quit celebrating Thanksgiving and Easter, too. The pilgrims were thanking God for their survival, and Easter is the celebration of our Lord's resurrection. You want an excuse to play with rabbits and baby chickens, celebrate the solstice. Easter is more than colored eggs and jelly beans.
Okay, I think I got that out of my system. It's 4:30 am; getting on towards time to be getting up, so I'd better get to bed;) Stayed up all night last night, and I don't particularly want to greet mom when she gets up this morning, too. Besides, we've got a wonderful new chocolate cheesecake to finish making this morning, and I'd hate to miss out.
Now I'm heading into the realm of the spiritual, and if that bothers you, don't click.
Religion (according to Webster's Dictionary):
an organized system of beliefs, rites, and celebrations centered on a supernatural being power
OR
belief pursued with devotion
Now, the first is the more common usage, but the latter is more relevant in my current argument. Jean posted a comment about school systems banning Christian symbols but allowing other religions' symbols to remain, and Rose made an excellent point: Christmas is a *Christian* holiday (hence the word holy-day: holiday) and the other religions *have no reason to celebrate it in the first place* You want to decorate trees and give presents? Fine, but don't call it Christmas. Christmas is ours. Celebrate whatever winter festival sparked the tree decorating, call it whatever it used to be, call it Tree Day, call it whatever. Just quit telling Christians they can't celebrate Christmas.
The groups banning Christianity argue that allowing Christian symbology is an unconstitutional establishment of religion. There are several problems with that argument. First, by celebrating the holiday at all, they are acknowledging Christianity as foundational in our culture. Second, by singling out Christianity, they show themselves to be anti-Christian, rather than neutral as they claim. Third, the US Constitution forbids the *Federal* government from making any law *prohibiting* free exercise of religion, which means the states are well within their rights to establish any religion they choose, unless their state constitution expressly contradicts that freedom. On the other hand, if they want to play it the Federal way, prohibiting Christians from celebrating Christmas in their own way is a violation of the very amendment they are claiming.
What is more, by its very nature, religion is a component of the human psyche. If religion is belief pursued with devotion, then every human being has a religion. He may call it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, or any other of a host of names, and people would say, "yes, that's a religion" according to the primary definition. However, he may say, "I don't have a religion." This is not true. He does not participate in an organized religion; he may not believe a deity exists, but he does have a system of beliefs. If it were not so, he would not be a thinking being. His belief system is his religion, and there are many "unofficial" religions: humanism, in which mankind is the ultimate authority and deity is simply not mentioned; atheism, in which man is the ultimate authority and is hostile to the very idea of deity (one must wonder why those who do not believe a deity exists must so vehemently insist that others agree to ignore said deity...you never see people vehemently denying the existence of Santa Claus or Jack Frost or the Easter Bunny...Easter being another Christian holiday that has been hijacked); environmentalism, in which nature is of supreme importance, justifying all manner of violence against human citizens minding their own business and going about their daily lives; and pantheism, in which every religion is fine as long as it isn't Christianity, because Christianity insists that all the others are wrong (never mind the fact that Islam and Judaism make the same claims)
Your religion is the framework by which you comprehend the world around you. I believe in God, so I see evidence of His power in the world around me. A humanist believes in himself, and explains the world in terms of human activity. He does not believe that spirits exist, so evidence of supernatural activity is explained away as a hoax, a trick of the light, an illness. God Himself could stand before a dedicated humanist, and the humanist would insist He was a mental patient or a temporary hallucination. This is why demands of "proof" bother me so. If you have already decided not to believe, no one will convince you, and if you have decided to believe, the proof is simply sweet reassurance. There is a reason it is called faith. Or trust.
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
My argument with my friend tonight centered on his insistence that he will not believe the Bible until it is proven true in all accounts by man's physical senses. The spiritual realm is not detectable by the physical senses, though, and the Bible itself declares: "Without faith, it is impossible to please God," and "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God," and "The things of God are foolishness to them which believe not." It will not make sense until you decide to believe. We call ourselves witnesses because we have experienced the things of God, and He has told us to tell the world. "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Human beings are creatures of emotion, not logic. When confronted with a decision to make ("which job should I take?" "which person should I go out with?" "which plumber should I call?" "which house should I choose?") we go to our friends and ask their opinion. The vast majority of people will trust the opinion of a friend over even the testimony of an expert: this is why all the proof in the world will avail nothing. People will believe what they want to believe. I did a brief stint with a financial investment and insurance company, and they made the point that people generally will not listen to an agent in deciding what investments to make: the average investor turns to his/her brother/sister/parent/spouse/co-worker for advice. The result is that the investor often ignores the professional, because s/he trusts his/her family and friends more. Thus, "official proof" of scripture will be unconvincing unless you are already predisposed to believe it. Most people will not let facts get in the way of their opinion.
We are called to be witnesses, because the only way to persuade people to believe is to be a good example and explain the Gospel. A Christian who never mentions God to you is failing in his/her calling, and demonstrating that s/he is more afraid of your ill-temper than of seeing you cast into everlasting flame. Truly, if you believed a friend/colleague/other acquaintance was on his/her way to a horrible fate, would you not warn him/her to turn around? Bridge out? Forest fire? Flash flood? Would you let any of these things take your friend when you had the chance to warn of the danger ahead of time? If you care about people at all, you would have to speak out. This is why we must tell others of Christ; eternity is too long to spend in lightless, unquenchable flame; within eyeshot of heaven, but unable to escape. It is often love which compels a Christian to tell others of Christ; we do not look forward to watching the angels hurl our friends and loved ones bodily from God's presence. There will be tears in heaven at the judgment.
A visiting preacher made a very good point a couple of Sundays ago: In this country, a person is innocent until proven guilty. Thus, instead of saying, "prove it true," people should offer their evidence for why they think it is false.
What is also interesting to me is the lengths to which people will go make a stink about Christianity and the Bible. I mean, really; people go looking for something to be offended about and they don't even know that the Bible says, or what certain groups believe. I don't go looking for Muslims or Pagans or Hindu so I can make their lives miserable, but I have had people go out of their way to try to antagonize me. A former co-worker used to challenge me almost every night with, "Do you celebrate this holiday? What about that one?" No, I don't celebrate Halloween; it's a Pagan holiday, and they're welcome to it, as far as I'm concerned. I like dressing up in costumes, but there's no reason for me to do it on that night. I haven't celebrated Halloween since 4th grade. Yes, I know that Christmas was moved to December to coincide with a Pagan celebration, and yes, I know the decorating trees originated with them. However, trees also have relevance in Christianity, as Christ was crucified on one, and since we don't really know the date of His birth, December is as good a month as any. Besides, the Catholic Church named the holiday (hence the name Christ Mass) and we Anabaptists (Amish, Mennonites, and Baptists) generally aren't on the best of terms with them anyway. The Protestants generally don't like us much, either. He seemed determined to try to get me riled, and it got old quickly. I never snapped at him, a fact I attribute to the Holy Spirit's influence in my life, because I do have quite a temper.
Yes, I believe that the other religions are wrong. Do I then go out hunting? No. In general, I avoid even *arguing* with those groups. I know that I cannot change their minds, and they won't change mine, so it's pointless to start. I don't go out and demand that Congress outlaw Wicca, but there are people out there insisting that Congress disband private organizations if they dare to uphold Christian values (Boyscouts, anyone?) and prevent Christians from speaking in public places. How long before the lions are in the stadiums again? I see groups here on LJ and in other places condemning "fundies" (as they call fundamentalist Christians) and expressing a desire to imprison and kill us. When have I ever expressed such a reciprocal desire? When have I ever told someone of an opposing religion that I wanted to kill him/her? Please let me know, because I do not remember ever doing such a thing. Yet it is popular to make such threats against us.
Oh, and as long as I'm on the subject, those who don't believe in God might just as well quit celebrating Thanksgiving and Easter, too. The pilgrims were thanking God for their survival, and Easter is the celebration of our Lord's resurrection. You want an excuse to play with rabbits and baby chickens, celebrate the solstice. Easter is more than colored eggs and jelly beans.
Okay, I think I got that out of my system. It's 4:30 am; getting on towards time to be getting up, so I'd better get to bed;) Stayed up all night last night, and I don't particularly want to greet mom when she gets up this morning, too. Besides, we've got a wonderful new chocolate cheesecake to finish making this morning, and I'd hate to miss out.
