Venting...
Nov. 22nd, 2003 04:36 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
chrystallineBleh. Very *long* conversation tonight (this morning...well, it started at about 10 pm, and didn't end until 2 am;) and rather draining, as it involved major spiritual issues. Why don't people understand that trust isn't trust after it's proven? It's only trust when you have no proof; then it becomes fact. Four solid hours, broken up only by loss of cellphone signal on a couple of occasions.
Now I'm heading into the realm of the spiritual, and if that bothers you, don't click.
Religion (according to Webster's Dictionary):
an organized system of beliefs, rites, and celebrations centered on a supernatural being power
OR
belief pursued with devotion
Now, the first is the more common usage, but the latter is more relevant in my current argument. Jean posted a comment about school systems banning Christian symbols but allowing other religions' symbols to remain, and Rose made an excellent point: Christmas is a *Christian* holiday (hence the word holy-day: holiday) and the other religions *have no reason to celebrate it in the first place* You want to decorate trees and give presents? Fine, but don't call it Christmas. Christmas is ours. Celebrate whatever winter festival sparked the tree decorating, call it whatever it used to be, call it Tree Day, call it whatever. Just quit telling Christians they can't celebrate Christmas.
The groups banning Christianity argue that allowing Christian symbology is an unconstitutional establishment of religion. There are several problems with that argument. First, by celebrating the holiday at all, they are acknowledging Christianity as foundational in our culture. Second, by singling out Christianity, they show themselves to be anti-Christian, rather than neutral as they claim. Third, the US Constitution forbids the *Federal* government from making any law *prohibiting* free exercise of religion, which means the states are well within their rights to establish any religion they choose, unless their state constitution expressly contradicts that freedom. On the other hand, if they want to play it the Federal way, prohibiting Christians from celebrating Christmas in their own way is a violation of the very amendment they are claiming.
What is more, by its very nature, religion is a component of the human psyche. If religion is belief pursued with devotion, then every human being has a religion. He may call it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, or any other of a host of names, and people would say, "yes, that's a religion" according to the primary definition. However, he may say, "I don't have a religion." This is not true. He does not participate in an organized religion; he may not believe a deity exists, but he does have a system of beliefs. If it were not so, he would not be a thinking being. His belief system is his religion, and there are many "unofficial" religions: humanism, in which mankind is the ultimate authority and deity is simply not mentioned; atheism, in which man is the ultimate authority and is hostile to the very idea of deity (one must wonder why those who do not believe a deity exists must so vehemently insist that others agree to ignore said deity...you never see people vehemently denying the existence of Santa Claus or Jack Frost or the Easter Bunny...Easter being another Christian holiday that has been hijacked); environmentalism, in which nature is of supreme importance, justifying all manner of violence against human citizens minding their own business and going about their daily lives; and pantheism, in which every religion is fine as long as it isn't Christianity, because Christianity insists that all the others are wrong (never mind the fact that Islam and Judaism make the same claims)
Your religion is the framework by which you comprehend the world around you. I believe in God, so I see evidence of His power in the world around me. A humanist believes in himself, and explains the world in terms of human activity. He does not believe that spirits exist, so evidence of supernatural activity is explained away as a hoax, a trick of the light, an illness. God Himself could stand before a dedicated humanist, and the humanist would insist He was a mental patient or a temporary hallucination. This is why demands of "proof" bother me so. If you have already decided not to believe, no one will convince you, and if you have decided to believe, the proof is simply sweet reassurance. There is a reason it is called faith. Or trust.
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
My argument with my friend tonight centered on his insistence that he will not believe the Bible until it is proven true in all accounts by man's physical senses. The spiritual realm is not detectable by the physical senses, though, and the Bible itself declares: "Without faith, it is impossible to please God," and "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God," and "The things of God are foolishness to them which believe not." It will not make sense until you decide to believe. We call ourselves witnesses because we have experienced the things of God, and He has told us to tell the world. "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Human beings are creatures of emotion, not logic. When confronted with a decision to make ("which job should I take?" "which person should I go out with?" "which plumber should I call?" "which house should I choose?") we go to our friends and ask their opinion. The vast majority of people will trust the opinion of a friend over even the testimony of an expert: this is why all the proof in the world will avail nothing. People will believe what they want to believe. I did a brief stint with a financial investment and insurance company, and they made the point that people generally will not listen to an agent in deciding what investments to make: the average investor turns to his/her brother/sister/parent/spouse/co-worker for advice. The result is that the investor often ignores the professional, because s/he trusts his/her family and friends more. Thus, "official proof" of scripture will be unconvincing unless you are already predisposed to believe it. Most people will not let facts get in the way of their opinion.
We are called to be witnesses, because the only way to persuade people to believe is to be a good example and explain the Gospel. A Christian who never mentions God to you is failing in his/her calling, and demonstrating that s/he is more afraid of your ill-temper than of seeing you cast into everlasting flame. Truly, if you believed a friend/colleague/other acquaintance was on his/her way to a horrible fate, would you not warn him/her to turn around? Bridge out? Forest fire? Flash flood? Would you let any of these things take your friend when you had the chance to warn of the danger ahead of time? If you care about people at all, you would have to speak out. This is why we must tell others of Christ; eternity is too long to spend in lightless, unquenchable flame; within eyeshot of heaven, but unable to escape. It is often love which compels a Christian to tell others of Christ; we do not look forward to watching the angels hurl our friends and loved ones bodily from God's presence. There will be tears in heaven at the judgment.
A visiting preacher made a very good point a couple of Sundays ago: In this country, a person is innocent until proven guilty. Thus, instead of saying, "prove it true," people should offer their evidence for why they think it is false.
What is also interesting to me is the lengths to which people will go make a stink about Christianity and the Bible. I mean, really; people go looking for something to be offended about and they don't even know that the Bible says, or what certain groups believe. I don't go looking for Muslims or Pagans or Hindu so I can make their lives miserable, but I have had people go out of their way to try to antagonize me. A former co-worker used to challenge me almost every night with, "Do you celebrate this holiday? What about that one?" No, I don't celebrate Halloween; it's a Pagan holiday, and they're welcome to it, as far as I'm concerned. I like dressing up in costumes, but there's no reason for me to do it on that night. I haven't celebrated Halloween since 4th grade. Yes, I know that Christmas was moved to December to coincide with a Pagan celebration, and yes, I know the decorating trees originated with them. However, trees also have relevance in Christianity, as Christ was crucified on one, and since we don't really know the date of His birth, December is as good a month as any. Besides, the Catholic Church named the holiday (hence the name Christ Mass) and we Anabaptists (Amish, Mennonites, and Baptists) generally aren't on the best of terms with them anyway. The Protestants generally don't like us much, either. He seemed determined to try to get me riled, and it got old quickly. I never snapped at him, a fact I attribute to the Holy Spirit's influence in my life, because I do have quite a temper.
Yes, I believe that the other religions are wrong. Do I then go out hunting? No. In general, I avoid even *arguing* with those groups. I know that I cannot change their minds, and they won't change mine, so it's pointless to start. I don't go out and demand that Congress outlaw Wicca, but there are people out there insisting that Congress disband private organizations if they dare to uphold Christian values (Boyscouts, anyone?) and prevent Christians from speaking in public places. How long before the lions are in the stadiums again? I see groups here on LJ and in other places condemning "fundies" (as they call fundamentalist Christians) and expressing a desire to imprison and kill us. When have I ever expressed such a reciprocal desire? When have I ever told someone of an opposing religion that I wanted to kill him/her? Please let me know, because I do not remember ever doing such a thing. Yet it is popular to make such threats against us.
Oh, and as long as I'm on the subject, those who don't believe in God might just as well quit celebrating Thanksgiving and Easter, too. The pilgrims were thanking God for their survival, and Easter is the celebration of our Lord's resurrection. You want an excuse to play with rabbits and baby chickens, celebrate the solstice. Easter is more than colored eggs and jelly beans.
Okay, I think I got that out of my system. It's 4:30 am; getting on towards time to be getting up, so I'd better get to bed;) Stayed up all night last night, and I don't particularly want to greet mom when she gets up this morning, too. Besides, we've got a wonderful new chocolate cheesecake to finish making this morning, and I'd hate to miss out.
Now I'm heading into the realm of the spiritual, and if that bothers you, don't click.
Religion (according to Webster's Dictionary):
an organized system of beliefs, rites, and celebrations centered on a supernatural being power
OR
belief pursued with devotion
Now, the first is the more common usage, but the latter is more relevant in my current argument. Jean posted a comment about school systems banning Christian symbols but allowing other religions' symbols to remain, and Rose made an excellent point: Christmas is a *Christian* holiday (hence the word holy-day: holiday) and the other religions *have no reason to celebrate it in the first place* You want to decorate trees and give presents? Fine, but don't call it Christmas. Christmas is ours. Celebrate whatever winter festival sparked the tree decorating, call it whatever it used to be, call it Tree Day, call it whatever. Just quit telling Christians they can't celebrate Christmas.
The groups banning Christianity argue that allowing Christian symbology is an unconstitutional establishment of religion. There are several problems with that argument. First, by celebrating the holiday at all, they are acknowledging Christianity as foundational in our culture. Second, by singling out Christianity, they show themselves to be anti-Christian, rather than neutral as they claim. Third, the US Constitution forbids the *Federal* government from making any law *prohibiting* free exercise of religion, which means the states are well within their rights to establish any religion they choose, unless their state constitution expressly contradicts that freedom. On the other hand, if they want to play it the Federal way, prohibiting Christians from celebrating Christmas in their own way is a violation of the very amendment they are claiming.
What is more, by its very nature, religion is a component of the human psyche. If religion is belief pursued with devotion, then every human being has a religion. He may call it Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, or any other of a host of names, and people would say, "yes, that's a religion" according to the primary definition. However, he may say, "I don't have a religion." This is not true. He does not participate in an organized religion; he may not believe a deity exists, but he does have a system of beliefs. If it were not so, he would not be a thinking being. His belief system is his religion, and there are many "unofficial" religions: humanism, in which mankind is the ultimate authority and deity is simply not mentioned; atheism, in which man is the ultimate authority and is hostile to the very idea of deity (one must wonder why those who do not believe a deity exists must so vehemently insist that others agree to ignore said deity...you never see people vehemently denying the existence of Santa Claus or Jack Frost or the Easter Bunny...Easter being another Christian holiday that has been hijacked); environmentalism, in which nature is of supreme importance, justifying all manner of violence against human citizens minding their own business and going about their daily lives; and pantheism, in which every religion is fine as long as it isn't Christianity, because Christianity insists that all the others are wrong (never mind the fact that Islam and Judaism make the same claims)
Your religion is the framework by which you comprehend the world around you. I believe in God, so I see evidence of His power in the world around me. A humanist believes in himself, and explains the world in terms of human activity. He does not believe that spirits exist, so evidence of supernatural activity is explained away as a hoax, a trick of the light, an illness. God Himself could stand before a dedicated humanist, and the humanist would insist He was a mental patient or a temporary hallucination. This is why demands of "proof" bother me so. If you have already decided not to believe, no one will convince you, and if you have decided to believe, the proof is simply sweet reassurance. There is a reason it is called faith. Or trust.
"Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen."
My argument with my friend tonight centered on his insistence that he will not believe the Bible until it is proven true in all accounts by man's physical senses. The spiritual realm is not detectable by the physical senses, though, and the Bible itself declares: "Without faith, it is impossible to please God," and "Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God," and "The things of God are foolishness to them which believe not." It will not make sense until you decide to believe. We call ourselves witnesses because we have experienced the things of God, and He has told us to tell the world. "Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature." Human beings are creatures of emotion, not logic. When confronted with a decision to make ("which job should I take?" "which person should I go out with?" "which plumber should I call?" "which house should I choose?") we go to our friends and ask their opinion. The vast majority of people will trust the opinion of a friend over even the testimony of an expert: this is why all the proof in the world will avail nothing. People will believe what they want to believe. I did a brief stint with a financial investment and insurance company, and they made the point that people generally will not listen to an agent in deciding what investments to make: the average investor turns to his/her brother/sister/parent/spouse/co-worker for advice. The result is that the investor often ignores the professional, because s/he trusts his/her family and friends more. Thus, "official proof" of scripture will be unconvincing unless you are already predisposed to believe it. Most people will not let facts get in the way of their opinion.
We are called to be witnesses, because the only way to persuade people to believe is to be a good example and explain the Gospel. A Christian who never mentions God to you is failing in his/her calling, and demonstrating that s/he is more afraid of your ill-temper than of seeing you cast into everlasting flame. Truly, if you believed a friend/colleague/other acquaintance was on his/her way to a horrible fate, would you not warn him/her to turn around? Bridge out? Forest fire? Flash flood? Would you let any of these things take your friend when you had the chance to warn of the danger ahead of time? If you care about people at all, you would have to speak out. This is why we must tell others of Christ; eternity is too long to spend in lightless, unquenchable flame; within eyeshot of heaven, but unable to escape. It is often love which compels a Christian to tell others of Christ; we do not look forward to watching the angels hurl our friends and loved ones bodily from God's presence. There will be tears in heaven at the judgment.
A visiting preacher made a very good point a couple of Sundays ago: In this country, a person is innocent until proven guilty. Thus, instead of saying, "prove it true," people should offer their evidence for why they think it is false.
What is also interesting to me is the lengths to which people will go make a stink about Christianity and the Bible. I mean, really; people go looking for something to be offended about and they don't even know that the Bible says, or what certain groups believe. I don't go looking for Muslims or Pagans or Hindu so I can make their lives miserable, but I have had people go out of their way to try to antagonize me. A former co-worker used to challenge me almost every night with, "Do you celebrate this holiday? What about that one?" No, I don't celebrate Halloween; it's a Pagan holiday, and they're welcome to it, as far as I'm concerned. I like dressing up in costumes, but there's no reason for me to do it on that night. I haven't celebrated Halloween since 4th grade. Yes, I know that Christmas was moved to December to coincide with a Pagan celebration, and yes, I know the decorating trees originated with them. However, trees also have relevance in Christianity, as Christ was crucified on one, and since we don't really know the date of His birth, December is as good a month as any. Besides, the Catholic Church named the holiday (hence the name Christ Mass) and we Anabaptists (Amish, Mennonites, and Baptists) generally aren't on the best of terms with them anyway. The Protestants generally don't like us much, either. He seemed determined to try to get me riled, and it got old quickly. I never snapped at him, a fact I attribute to the Holy Spirit's influence in my life, because I do have quite a temper.
Yes, I believe that the other religions are wrong. Do I then go out hunting? No. In general, I avoid even *arguing* with those groups. I know that I cannot change their minds, and they won't change mine, so it's pointless to start. I don't go out and demand that Congress outlaw Wicca, but there are people out there insisting that Congress disband private organizations if they dare to uphold Christian values (Boyscouts, anyone?) and prevent Christians from speaking in public places. How long before the lions are in the stadiums again? I see groups here on LJ and in other places condemning "fundies" (as they call fundamentalist Christians) and expressing a desire to imprison and kill us. When have I ever expressed such a reciprocal desire? When have I ever told someone of an opposing religion that I wanted to kill him/her? Please let me know, because I do not remember ever doing such a thing. Yet it is popular to make such threats against us.
Oh, and as long as I'm on the subject, those who don't believe in God might just as well quit celebrating Thanksgiving and Easter, too. The pilgrims were thanking God for their survival, and Easter is the celebration of our Lord's resurrection. You want an excuse to play with rabbits and baby chickens, celebrate the solstice. Easter is more than colored eggs and jelly beans.
Okay, I think I got that out of my system. It's 4:30 am; getting on towards time to be getting up, so I'd better get to bed;) Stayed up all night last night, and I don't particularly want to greet mom when she gets up this morning, too. Besides, we've got a wonderful new chocolate cheesecake to finish making this morning, and I'd hate to miss out.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
*cheers and applauds*
Date: 2003-11-22 12:32 pm (UTC)The evergreen is also a symbol of eternity. And it's possible to make a case for the date of Christmas being correct because it coincides with Hannukah (the Festival of Lights heralding the arrival of the Light of the World), but I'm not going to harp on that dogmatically because we *don't* know for sure. IMO, it's more important to celebrate Christmas "in remembrance of [Him]" than to debate when He was actually born.
Well said! :)
Rose
Re: *cheers and applauds*
Date: 2003-12-01 10:36 pm (UTC)(no subject)
Date: 2003-11-22 08:05 pm (UTC)So, I'm a non-believer. Always have been, even if I did attempt to understand Christianity (even went to Bible group and Sunday school a bit of my own free will to see what it was all about). That is my choice. I don't try to talk Christians out of their faith - I may rise some philosophical questions because I think it's an interesting discussion, but I tend to stay out of religious debates because I know my opinions would upset many who value their faith. I have Christian friends, but they would not be my friends if they used every opportunity to preach to me, to 'save' me.
These are different times from when then Gospels were written. Many in the Western world who now chose atheism or humanism *know* what Christianity is. So you'll excuse me if I find A Christian who never mentions God to you is failing in his/her calling, and demonstrating that s/he is more afraid of your ill-temper than of seeing you cast into everlasting flame terribly offensive. What, my Christian friends who respect my choice are not doing a good job? I'll be sure to pass that one on.
As for the rest of your rant - you do realise that Christianity can have a meaning to people without we actually following it? It is a part of Europe's history, for one thing, and it's deeply embedded in the culture. I don't believe in the Asatru of the Vikings, but I won't reject the traces of it still in Norwegian culture or history. I acknowledge that, and I acknowledge the impact of Christianity. My family reads for the Bible every Christmas even though we are not believers. Traditions take on a life of their own after a while. The original meanings sometimes doesn't matter as much as keeping the tradition in place. Christianity hijacked a Pagan ritual, after all. It's not like this belongs to Christianity. It's hard to say traditions belong to anyone. They are more like affiliates. Humans use them for what they will.
And before you get on the 'we're so prosecuted' horse, do keep in mind that *Christianity is the biggest religion in the world*. That's right. Islam is a strong second, but it is still behind. Your president is a fairly fundamentalist Christian and he is the most powerful man in the world.
Wiccan, by comparison, is tiny. And in my country at least, little religions earn a little extra protection, just like minorities. The protection that Christianity didn't get when the Romans sent Christians to the lions. You were a tiny, tiny organisation then. You're the biggest religion in the world now. And, I might add, one with blood on its hands. History hasn't been the kindest judge of character of Christian churches - wars, prosecutions of others, the Crusade... That does not mean it is a bad religion now, but you'll have to excuse me if that makes some of us just a wee bit wary of where it will go.
I worry the same about Islam, as I'm sure you do, given that muslim fundamentalists have targetted the US itself. When a big religion is showing muscles, those not in it do worry. And your post here has done very little to make me less worried.
This is why often people want the power of Christianity restricted. You may not agree, but do try to understand. Christianity is big and Chrsitianity has caused much misery through the years - and like it often is, the misery sticks rather than good things. And this is a different world from what it once was.
(continued...)
...continued
Date: 2003-11-22 08:06 pm (UTC)Okay, now I've rambled. Look, I'm not trying to offend you or stir you up. I think you had some very interesting thoughts on what religion is and I can certainly understand why you want to defend something that is very dear to you. But please understand that to a lot of non-believers, Christianity is a huge, powerful force, sometimes threatning. And when you say things that to me looks like 'you must preach to your non-believing friends or you are not a true friend' - that's not comforting at all. You make it sound like they have to stuff it down my throat, force religion on me. What the heck good would I be to Christianity if I'm embracing it out of anything but true belief and joy?
I'm not going to say anything more on this, as it's your LJ, your opinions, your backyard. You can delete my comment or whatever you like, as I will say nothing more here. We're only going to get into a very nasty debate, I fear. You can reach me at my AIM or MSN if you really want to, but I gotta warn you - I care for my Christian friends, and I react badly to what I see as littling because they have embraced tolerance.
Re: ...continued
Date: 2003-12-01 11:01 pm (UTC)Suppose someone came up to you and said, "Hi, I'm So-and-so, Prince/ss of ______." It is true that there are relatively few royals compared to the number of ordinary people in the world, but unless you know for a fact this person cannot be who s/he claims, why would you insist s/he wasn't? However, we make our decisions based on emotion, not fact, and even if presented with overwhelming evidence for the truth of Christianity, a person who chooses not to believe will not believe. Religion is a default value: everyone has one, whether they call it that or not. Nevertheless, I may look into what they have to say.
You make it sound like they have to stuff it down my throat, force religion on me. What the heck good would I be to Christianity if I'm embracing it out of anything but true belief and joy?
None. And that's why that wasn't what I was saying. I get quite frustrated when I encounter people who have been beaten over the head with Christianity; it takes me months to get to the point that they will regard me as a friend. I've lost count of how many people have told me, "You're different. You're not like the other Christians I've met." If I could round up the Christians or so-called Christians who do that, I'd give them all a good thumping for the damage they're doing to the faith they claim to uphold.
I'm not going to say anything more on this, as it's your LJ, your opinions, your backyard. You can delete my comment or whatever you like, as I will say nothing more here. We're only going to get into a very nasty debate, I fear. You can reach me at my AIM or MSN if you really want to, but I gotta warn you - I care for my Christian friends, and I react badly to what I see as littling because they have embraced tolerance.
I'm not trying to convince you; you've been calm and respectful, so I see no reason to delete your posts either. I was not trying to belittle your friends, merely expressing my own frustration with my friend and my government. I can hope and pray that you eventually change your mind, but those who know you in RL are more likely to have an influence; my only concern here is that I do not lead you to think that Christians are mean-spirited bullies. I think you misunderstood some of what I said, and I hope I have clarified it satisfactorily.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 10:57 pm (UTC)my Christian friends who respect my choice are not doing a good job?
That's not exactly what I said. You're aware that they are Christians, so the subject must've come up at least once. Constantly peppering a person with, "You need to get saved," is counter-productive and gives all Christians a bad reputation with that person. You're not unaware of the gospel, and you have chosen not to believe it. That is your right, but if you had not heard it, any Christian who spent any length of time with you and never mentioned it at all would be at least partially responsible for your loss. If a sentry stands guard over a city and sees enemy fighters coming, he is to warn the people within. If he fails to warn them, he is responsible for their deaths. If he warns them and they ignore him, then they will still die, but he will not be responsible for it, because he did his duty.
Large numbers of America's population claim to be Christians without following any of what the Bible teaches, so yes, I know it has an impact. In fact, our laws *were* based on principles found in the Ten Commandments and our nation founded on Christian ideals, but the issue here is in preventing people from publicly celebrating a federal holiday that *started in their religion.* Other religions' traditions are allowed, but Christianity in particular is forbidden. This is precisely the kind of thing the Bill of Rights was written to prevent, and it's been twisted around to do the exact opposite.
*Christianity is the biggest religion in the world*.
I would like to see the stats on that; Christianity is not all that strongly represented outside of N. America. Asia holds vastly more people, and I would expect that Hinduism/Buddhism would be similarly larger. Christians are not safe in many parts of the world; I hear too often of Christians being killed for being in the wrong location.
Wiccan, by comparison, is tiny. And in my country at least, little religions earn a little extra protection, just like minorities. The protection that Christianity didn't get when the Romans sent Christians to the lions.
The early Christians were persecuted *by the government.* I disagree with the idea of extra rights for any group; the point is equal laws for all. If it is legal to display any other religious group's symbols, it should also be legal to display Christian symbols. If it had been merely *legal* to be a Christian in early Rome, they would not have been persecuted the way they were; extra protection would not have been needed.
The thing is, I do not accept as true Christians many groups who claim to be so. The Catholic church slaughtered *my* predecessors-in-the-faith along with anyone who chose not to believe in God. The Huguenot, the Separatists, the Puritans, John Knox, John Huss, Martin Luther - the list could go on and on. The Inquisition was aimed at any who refused to accept *Rome's* version of the Bible; Constantine did more damage to Christianity by making it mandatory than his predecessors did through torture. True Christianity is *not* bloody.
The Bible never advocates violence as a means of advancing the faith. In the Old Testament, the Jews were told to "drive out" the peoples occupying the land God promised them, but never to "incorporate" them. In the New Testament, the disciples were told that when a town rejected their message, they were to "shake the dust from their feet." If anything happened to the town after that, it wasn't the disciples' doing. Islam *does* teach coerced conversion, so yes, that does concern me.
And this is a different world from what it once was.
People will always be the same. Different settings, different costumes, but inside, people will always be the emotionally based creatures they have ever been.
(no subject)
Date: 2003-11-30 10:29 am (UTC)I read a report by someone,(obviously an increddibally reliable source,lol) that Christ was born in the summer, april, or around there, and december was just when the wise men were able to finially reach him, so , that was the declared 'christmas' again, only an extrememly random source, but I heard my preacher attesting to something of the same information... it has also been speculated that as a metaphore Christ was actually crucified near his birthday... just something to think about- p.s. I love the point , I was duiscussing something of the same sort with my friend, and the whole, trust is only trust until it is proven, than it is fact' thing , was just a great insight, and really an appreciated view-thank you-
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-01 10:35 pm (UTC)Visited your LJ; I know a few Erikas, so I wasn't sure if I already knew you from a yahoogroup or something? Anyway, just out of curiosity, where did you hear about me?
(no subject)
Date: 2003-12-02 12:16 am (UTC)